Widget ImageLying with Statistics | Page 2 | Random Topics | Community

Welcome to the new Moody Blues Today forums. When using the below forums you will need to create a new username and password than what you had used on the old forums.

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In

Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

The forums are currently locked and only available for read only access
This topic is locked
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Lying with Statistics
August 9, 2015
9:00 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

At last! We agree on something. I am quite perturbed at the news people talking about the debate and who bested whom, as if we don't have our own ears and value systems. It is propaganda and not news.

In local politics, our county commissioners last week voted unanimously to settle for $7 million a lawsuit leveled by five guys who burst into a guy's home. One of them shot the owner dead. They all pled guilty to some degree of participation. Then, some big criminal's rights organization came in and demanded $17 million because they didn't like the interrogation methods of the former sheriff. Most was discussed in closed session, but that's the result.

One the lies I have most difficulty with is the strawman, where somebody slyly accuses me of something. I can go up in flames protesting or let it slide and hope my true friends know I'm better than that. I love John Lodge's lyric, "Don't answer lies."

I had a great talk with our branch president after church today. I was giddy all day. It was so nice to talk to somebody who also despised corporate lies for short-term gain. Unfortunately, he wasn't hiring. I hate those conversations where people don't respect empiricism or logic. Sometimes, it is not appropriate to walk away.

Then, there are the times when you think you figure something out, and you see why somebody lied, and you carry a humongous burden.

I like the lyrics of "No More Lies." [That's why it's leslee instead of leslie - Not really. It's that way on the birth certificate.] I think the Moodies as people probably value truth like they do in their lyrics, and that is another reason to like them.

August 11, 2015
1:26 pm
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Everyone values truth, but you have to admit, a good storyteller is a thing of beauty. Despite having many other things to do around here, I've taken to "escape" reading at bedtime and am re-reading the entire Oz series again. Taking notes of governance of the Land of Oz, because I think a lot of politicians were brain washed as children by reading these things. Read the Progressive platform if you don't believe in L. Frank Baum's long term influence.

Speaking of strawmen....

I finally watched the whole RNC debate of last week, I thought Christie, Rubio, Carson, and Walker were all capable, a couple fuller of [bleep] than the others. Some of the others were scared out of their socks, parroting a script, and thus would make very poor presidents. Either that or they were just stupid and smart a**ed .... perhaps things will change with the next debate who knows.

Logic won't be a part of the process in the next election. It certainly wasn't in the last election, it was a popularity contest. I compared resumes... the American people rarely hire the one with the best record. So, simply take politics at an entertainment level.... that's all it really is.

That's sad about the county commissioners. I don't know the whole story, but it sounds like getting 7 million for breaking, entering and murder is a darn good racket. Methinks you need new commissioners. Is your constituency plugged into video games and unaware? Ah then they deserve the higher taxes this will lead to. Que lastima.

We had a home invasion here just 5 min drive from me like two weeks ago, and the 78 year old resident shot at the burglar, we pack heat up here! Got his car stolen anyway, but the cops recovered it after the very sharp residents called 911. It's every citizen for themselves sometimes.

"What can't be cured must be endured" -- RA Heinlein (who stole it from someone else)

August 12, 2015
4:57 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm voting for a woman, because the people on TV talk about the women's vote, which means women vote for women. Women and blacks with the black vote, aren't bright enough to think for themselves. And that is what I learn from the boss' TV which runs all day. Back to the stalker, men, unlike women (and obviously blacks) have cerebra and cerebella. Women are instinctive and emotional. Arf! Arf! Time to potty.

August 13, 2015
1:20 am
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I refuse to dignify that burlesque with a response....

Speaking of lying with statistics, do you have a response here? I am so confused on this issue. Again... such liars..........

http://cnsnews.com/news/articl.....2975000000

August 13, 2015
11:40 am
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In our latest episode of 'Dufus Goes to . . . Dufus takes to posting ill-informed political opinion on music message boards. Let's see what she says . . .

I get "Page not found." Perhaps your opinion is echoed. What's the issue? I could probably muster an uninformed opinion bad enough to warrant rebuttal and keep a thread going one more turn.

I am now reviewing Mark Levin's latest book. It has the title 'Plunder and Deceit.' I don't claim to be as intelligent as he, but I dare say he is spinning stuff. I'm only on page 50-ish, but he criticized the national budget because auditors used words used in every audit I've ever seen. They sound dangerous, but they only mean you might need a third person to approve a check or something - in other words, waste more money on costs of compliance. Another point of disagreement is he says Social Security is not an insurance program because people pay for others' benefits. Well, my car insurance and any kind of medical insurance I've ever had work with pools. I don't get it. At least I can feel good about myself for giving to Social Security with no expectation of any kind of pecuniary returns. I have self-worth!

Otherwise, I thank Levin for continuing the push to raise awareness about this country's unfunded liabilities. He made many excellent point selsewhere. I don't think it helps to fight a good fight with exaggeration. It helps in the short-term, but I never enjoyed a weltanschauung of useful idiots. Levin, in fact, quoted de Tocqueville (who supposedly set eyes on the beloved land of Clarkston in its pristine state and wrote a blurb) as describing our democratic republic thus: By this system the people shake off their state of dependence just long enough to select their master and then relapse into it again. (That was a quote, but I was told never to use quotes with a colon, even though it is quite accepted practice, now.)

Back to the Repo primary. I'm not a Repo, so I wish to respect their right to freely assembly and trick the Demos into whatever. I'll worry after they find their candidates.

August 13, 2015
10:06 pm
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I was just curious what you thought... had to do with national debt.

I was somehow side tracked into the President Harding biography today (they turned up some illegitimate offspring via DNA) all I can remember from my school day history lessons was "Teapot Dome Scandal" and I remember it being very confusing, essentially a corruption plot, or accusations of corruption plots (both have equal veracity when you look at the political history).

It seems a given that a large percentage of our elected officials are crooks. Usually large mining conglomerates, banks, and land developers are tangled up in it. It's all throughout American history, from Benjamin Franklin (party to the development of the Ohio River valley, ultimately leading to the push back from the Iroquois in the War of 1812) to present day, where one of the perpetrators of a hideous realty scam called Whitewater (made Teapot Dome look tame) is a leading contender for President... and no one seems to mind. Ditto on the guy with the blonde toupee, he stood on stage during the debate and discussed passing out campaign money for favors from elected officials. No one was scandalized. What gives?

Anyway poor Harding seemed to be a good Joe, but he had woman problems plainly (or possibly just zipper issues) and "friends" who were crooks, took kick backs from Sinclair (of the Oil company) as my great grandfather was some sort of drinking buddy with Sinclair, I need to dig into it all more, plainly. Riotous living in those days, indeed. Harding finally dropped with what actually sounds like undiagnosed leukemia, similar to what my mom had. (ie smoking and drinking past one's shelf life, Harding's demise was officially brain hemorrhage)

I think the point I'm trying to make here is, money is nothing, it's all accounting. At the level of Federal finance, it's all fictitious. "Money" is not "real worth"............ I'm sitting in a house full of STUFF that is several generations of accumulated "real wealth" like books, jewelry, tools, art, photos, bric a brac, antiques.....

Money is all fiction. I wish we could go back to the gold standard (Rand was right), I suspect things would even out then.

Levin is right, but he sounds like he is proposing a band aid fix. The problem is not plunder, it's mis-assignment of true value. True value when you get old is having a good health care plan. Thoughts?

August 14, 2015
10:26 am
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've never been a fan of the gold standard, but I like the idea of trading value for value as long as we are able. The weak and frail can't often contribute, so we give them things out of love. With other people we exchange to help with self-esteem. If you clean my car, I will naturally feel badly if I don't do something in return. If I'm not a good grower, and I love fruit, I don't want to cart my hens around town to trade, so I carry stupid pieces of paper. At any time, somebody could blow the money to the wind like so much dust on a mirror, that much is true. However, it would not be moral and responsible to just walk away from obligations.

Historically, the US has been good at bailing out indebted nations. Nobody has or could come to rescue the US. Capitalism is good as long as all the players are good, but they won't be. Cronies start getting government to pump money into their enterprises that have failed in the market, and a vicious cycle continues. Then, you get kinda where we are today where the cronies have made so many rules, little guys sit on their hands unable to hire enough lawyers and accountants to set up a lemonade stand.

Back in the Old Testament, they sort of understood economies of whatever kind needed a reset about every seventy years. So, they had a Jubilee. A friend of mine was really into the idea. I thought he was nuts, but only a few years ago did I start to see the wisdom.

I don't see the US going austere to pay our obligations. Government trains us otherwise, to whine and depend. I therefore expect, sadly, unrest, distraction, revolution, and not in a peaceful way.

Speaking of the value of money, this might be a good place to whine. I tried to pick up a ticket to a Justin show. It was a great first-row seat. I purchased it online and went back to work. Maybe five hours later, I got a message asking me to please cancel my order because somebody else had beat me to the punch. In trying to reverse the order, which I couldn't do, I discovered I had paid with an account that should have been closed 5-10 years ago. All I had were the last four digits of the account. The bank could not work with that. So, after about two hours of red tape this morning, we just had to decide that I had taken money out of the account of some poor soul whose only crime was being reassigned my account number. I do hope this gets straightened out before the cops come to haul me away.

Did I answer everything? I'm in 3 hours of nightly sleep mode until further notice. Expect catastrophes.

August 15, 2015
1:02 am
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Doctor prescribes rest.

Dr. Carson recently said something similar, we need to end the cycle of dependency on the government. I really like that man, he's smart AND nice. Washington State is about to get fined for not doing something correct with the schools, so that we are dependent on Federal money. I still don't understand it... I'd link it for you only your computer won't link.

Economies used to "reset" with wars. As Rhett Butler put it, "Fortunes are made on the downfall of a civilization, and on the rise of a civilization" I'm not sure which category our country falls into right now, but so long as we have our guns and our back yard chickens, we will probably do ok. I hope.

France bailed us out (sorta) during the Revolution, and during the War of 1812, the Brits tried to bail out the Indians (who owned the other half of North America at the time). Jefferson at least "bailed out" France in exchange for the Louisiana Purchase, so it was a trade rather than a bail out. War of 1812 was complex, and the Brits finally had to get off the continent, leaving the Indians to slog it out alone.... and they lost.

In many cases, our "bail outs" of small countries winds up being in exchange for access to their air bases (like Turkey, we are using their fields to launch airstrikes on ISIS right now) or are occasionally out and out bribes to allow our shipping safe passage (aka the Barbary pirates, and their modern day counterparts in the Indian Ocean). Bail outs are often just bribes to the biggest meanest gangster in the country, it goes into said gangster's pocket and rarely makes it to the starving peasants. In an even more insidious scenario, we give our tech to other countries, but we undoubtedly embed a tracking program that lets us follow their every move. I'm not overly impressed with our current Federal administration, but I do admire their strategic sneakiness on some level.

No one said the world was a nice place. I'm glad i live where I live. My ancestors worked hard to put me where I am today, and I hope and plan to pass that along to my offspring.

I'm sorry about your credit card perambulations. I had one seize like that when I bought one on line in the UK.... I finally gave up, but oddly it was still there waiting for me after I returned to the hotel from the Hammersmith show. I've been known to have two cards ready when one locks up. Then again, there's always the "slither up to an empty seat" you can fall back on...

August 15, 2015
9:01 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What happened was an account closed about 10 years ago was charged, and the charges went through. It appears the bank reissued the card number, and some poor soul out there has $145 debited from their account. The bank refuses to do anything - not even turn this over to their fraud department - until the poor victim detects the error and reports it. Then, he can wait maybe a week while his claim processes. I imagine the owner on vacation, driving between Phoenix and LA and stopping for gas only to have his debit card declined. Or a mother of four being humiliated and left foodless in the grocery line when her card doesn't go through. I pounded cages for most of the day yesterday trying to get somebody to listen to my concerns that somebody might be in big trouble. $145 is a lot of money to a lot of us, and many good people are living hand to mouth. I made a stupid mistake, and now somebody else is paying! This isn't right.

August 16, 2015
12:28 am
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Relax you did all you can do. If you talked to the card company, it's going to be ok, believe me. Don't be so responsible, tho it is noble of you to do so.

I'm glad I don't have to rely on charge cards to live anymore. There was a time in my life where we did that. There is indeed a dark side to Moody addiction.... and to being a single frightened mother.

No mas. Laugh

August 16, 2015
6:08 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It was a debit card, so the poor soul can't even touch their own money.

I haven't used credit cards since I destroyed my credit all those years ago. That is why I called a first-rate fan one time and asked her to buy me a ticket so I could pay her when we caught up. Another time, I did some pickup editing in exchange for the publisher merely purchasing a ticket on his credit card and me paying him in full next payday. Who are you calling responsible?

August 17, 2015
4:37 pm
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sounds good! You ARE responsible with money, I'll vouch for that!!!! I couldn't live without cards.... I can't keep a check book balanced if I write checks all the time.... I use them for petty purchases and pay at the end of the month (usually more than I owe... just mailed one today) and yes they are very useful on line, if one is careful.

My card company has backed me up in only one bad ticket purchase.... thankfully that doesn't happen often and that show sold out anyway.

The person with the debit card is probably ok, the banks cover that sort of thing. They'll just close out that number, and issue them another one. Don't worry, it's just a matter of balancing books.

August 17, 2015
5:24 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The bank finally got around to declining the purchase, so PayPal made me the poor soul who was out the money, as the transaction was canceled and the ticket sold to somebody else. I called PayPal, and they informed me they had a record of the sale to another party and therefore it is the poor seller who will get in trouble if the money is not refunded. Well, that's the story today. It changes all the time, doesn't it?

August 18, 2015
12:42 pm
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That ticket was not meant to be yours, alas.

Do you do astrophysics, leslee? I was at a lecture last night which was headed that way.... only they didn't want to confuse the peasants. I have more I can drag into the discussion. Most scientific debate seems to center on interpretation of statistics ....

August 18, 2015
12:57 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I used to do a tad for the retired NASA engineer interested in alternatives to jet propulsion. I wholly agree with you on this:

lunazure said

Most scientific debate seems to center on interpretation of statistics ....

I hate how the mainstream media acts as if the bulk of us don't know that, though. Feel free to drag out some astrofizz stats. It might be fun.

Back to gummint stats, I figgered out last night, thanks to Wikipedia and not some gummint web site housing a Minotaur, that AMI around here is about four times higher than earned income because it includes gummint subsidies.

August 18, 2015
3:11 pm
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I need to get going on some chores around here....

Well I'll try to be brief. I'm attending these "free astronomy lectures" because they are there, and it beats sitting home watching a movie. Series of five, the one tonight is in Spanish (appropriate because this telescope is going to be built in Chile). The title of the coming behemoth telescope is the LSST, and since links don't work for you, I'll let you Google it.

Suffice to say the data stream is going to expand tremendously with this LSST, sky survey planned and so forth... will probably go past my lifetime.

I'll get to the tech in a second. What scares me is if our current admin in DC is backing this, I'm hoping it won't be a money pit for American tax dollars. The science behind it seems sound to me (I'm not totally dumb in the field of astrophysics, but no expert either, just a science teacher) Just the lectures alone are probably expensive, this little gang of astronomers from all over the country are barnstorming around the country now, coming to backwater joints like Kitsap county, and promoting their project. Someone is paying the bill....

To the project itself: last night was a lecture on "Mapping the Milky Way" and I think I'll go get the post and clip/paste it here. I was a little stunned, but what I know of physics and astronomy, it seemed realistic, not statistical double talk. Tho of necessity, this Sky survey will be based on statistics drawn from digital maps of the skies.

OK here's the post I've put elsewhere:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2015.08.17: Night two: dark matter and cannibal galaxies

The gal who talked tonight is at the top of the astronomy heap these days, so her fees are not small.... makes me wonder if they have a grant, or if they are getting tax dollars from our friends in DC. This LSST project is going to be huge and costly, and I always have a habit of "following the money" Wherever it's coming from the project is mind boggling and exciting, on the order of sending the first men into orbit, or the first time we broke the sound barrier, or when we sent the USS Nautilus under the ice for the first time. Tonight's lecture involved the structure of galaxies and dark matter. I'm assuming everyone reading here knows what a galaxy is, and we live in the Milky Way about 2/3 of the way out one spiral arm. I also will skim over details like Doppler vectoring with spectrum shift, and detecting the composition of distance stars via spectrum analysis (basic chemistry and physics stuff, see Isaac Asimov's *Universe*) All of these factors will be part of the overall survey mission of the LSST, in serious digital detail. The crowd seemed a little sharper tonight, and several kids "junior scientists" acquitted themselves well with estimating planetary distances. The beauty of this LSST program is, they hope to include lesson plans for K-12, which got my attention as I teach. Hopefully this will all be a boon to education, we need all the help we can get in this field.

New things to me: dark matter apparently forms in halos around a galaxy, while the visible light galaxy might be something like 75,000 light years across, the dark matter halo surround THIS is 1,500,000 light years across. Mentioned was the SDSS Alamagordo digital survey telescope (on line now) and the DES Dark Energy survey, apparently being done at several universities (these guys in the lecture team are from all over the country, Arizona, DC, UW etc). The LSST will enhance the present data stream by a 1000 times, lots and lots of data. Through fearsome statistical analysis of star-fields, we are finding more "satellite dwarf galaxies" to our own Milky Way, something like 11 right now, the Magellanic Clouds being the two brightest of these. Why figure all this out? General thought is the Milky Way analysis/survey will be the "Rosetta Stone" for figuring out other galaxies. My own thinking is, you never know what you'll find until you go looking for it. She also had a very cute quote from AC Clarke: "Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. Either way, it scares me".

The discussion veered into the Twilight Zone shortly after this. Most of us who follow astronomy news casually have gotten the picture that Dark Matter is thought to "make up" the missing mass of the Universe, how this was arrived at I don't know (detecting deviations in gravitational orbits/profiles I think), but it's just an interesting factoid to me, not gospel. Math/stats can be flawed, we all know that and check and recheck the numbers. Apparently Dark Matter and "how much" is a very hotly debated topic within the astrophysics world. This LSST survey (which will probably outlive me) aims to solve it. Oddly I asked the right question toward the end, I think a lot of people were overwhelmed, and I finally formulated what was bugging me: what exactly is the difference in a star cluster, of stars which are moving together in the galaxy, and of a "dwarf galaxy that has been cannibalized by the Milky Way and is also a group of stars moving together?" What sorts out the dwarf galaxies, is they are moving differently than star clusters. They have Dark Matter that we can only detect by the movement.... they are moving like they should have more mass than we can see. (and yes this telescope can "see" into the UV and IR ranges) Star clusters are moving like a normal cluster of stars. So the dwarf galaxies are part of the Dark Matter halos that extend beyond the visible portion of the galaxy.

The dwarf galaxies are sometimes called "streams" or "rings" in some cases, as they were cannibalized so long ago, there is none of their original structure left, only a heavier density of stars and evidence of Dark Matter. They are like ghosts of old galaxies which were absorbed (the Milky Way is thought to be a pretty large galaxy compared to others we can see distantly). That's the current model anyway. Those of us who have been studying this a while know that in 10 years there could be another, even better theory pop up to explain the same set of data.It was a pretty good lecture, and I learned quite a bit tonight.

August 18, 2015
11:36 pm
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That was a nice read. We only get liberal arts lectures here. Your question was good as was your insight that an infinite number of explanation lines can be drawn through the data point of star clusters moving along diverse trajectories. I still don't know what dark energy is. Last I heard, the O administration was averse to funding NASA, cutting big. I may be off. Likely the talking circuit is to get private donors.

August 19, 2015
1:39 am
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I researched it.... they seem to be relying on private donations. Bill Gates has kicked in a lot of dough... etc. Many universities, four in England. If the government is involved, they are super undercover.

Yeah one of the astronomers actually high fived me for asking the question. It really illuminated the whole process when she went back and re-explained it... there IS a difference in a star cluster and a "dwarf galaxy" but I'm thinking more appropriately the dwarf galaxies should be termed as a "being ingested" galaxy. A "snack galaxy" Laugh The whole point being, when two galaxies get close, the biggest one steals all the stars from the little one, until there is just a trickle left of the old one. But the Dark Matter is still there. Mind you all this is being ferreted out from minute analysis of simple photos of star fields.... massive massive amounts of data sifting.

My first dream when I went to college was to be an astronomer, but I was a pretty confused puppy back then, so that dream got lost. It's sure a lot of number crunching to sort out speed, direction and make-up of celestial bodies from the color they give off, or from microscopic movements in a photo.

I wish I could get clock hours for this.

There have been such massive advances in digital imaging made since I last tapped this subject. Even lately I had a mammogram done, without going into details (TMI) I was really floored at the advances in imaging. The last one I had done was in 2001. (I don't dig radiation on my bod). Same goes for astronomy. We have definitely moved into the 21st century. Oh brave new world that has such things in it!

August 19, 2015
10:18 am
Avatar
leslee
Member
Forum Posts: 3631
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My turnoff in astronomy came when I was doing an honors option for an undergrad course, and one of my jobs was to sort a whole bunch of spectra (lines on little cards). Mind you, these were black and white back in the day. Had they been in color, I no doubt would have been hooked.

Pardon if I'm more than a bit confused.

lunazure said

But the Dark Matter is still there.

Again, I thought dark matter was largely rock; more specifically, anything that did not radiate or reflect EM or EM in the frequencies under consideration. Then again, I only took baby science courses. If gravitation is somehow altered by spectral input, you might be on to something very, very big. Perhaps I don't understand what you were saying. Where is there?

August 20, 2015
12:49 am
Avatar
lunazure
Member
Forum Posts: 3294
Member Since:
September 25, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I probably phrased it wrong. I did another lecture tonight, and will clarify later I think.... tired and headed to bath soon, rather than typing up my scrawls.

I suspect astronomy would not be one's cup of tea if vision is an issue..... often they don't do them in color, they just say the light is at X angstroms, and they're looking for a red shift to show movement. (Doppler) so black and white is easier and cheaper. Tech has REALLY advanced a LOT in astronomy, and about to get more advanced.

One thing I did pick up tonight, is that the USA and UN both have mandates to this team to be "on the lookout" for killer asteroids. It's part of the 10 year mission of the LSST.

Stopping there or I'll be typing on this subject all night. Anon, good nurse, anon....

This topic is locked
Forum Timezone: UTC -4

Most Users Ever Online: 87

Currently Online:
3 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

nancyg: 5192

moodytoni2: 3981

leslee: 3631

lunazure: 3294

moodyballetdancer: 689

forevermoody: 291

maitrishah1: 253

Eastojamson: 245

milkwhitegown: 190

MagicalBlueTail: 166

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 2655

Moderators: 2

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 7

Forums: 20

Topics: 604

Posts: 19552

Newest Members:

simonaragazza, MarkBerger, hefide9605, melvinburk, Billie34, Evanyost, Jenny110, bomojiy124, Doby1996, Josiaheyes

Moderators: Andy Martel: 0, Michelle: 0

Administrators: admin: 0