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June 28, 2018
9:55 pm
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leslee
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Yeah, I made two typoes (at least).

Why am I so vain as to read what I post?

June 29, 2018
11:37 am
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lunazure
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Editing for ebb and flow of your words, not to mention conventions, is just good writing skills. Poof! Cool

Even in the desert, there is biodiversity. believe me. Most of the action happens at night.

"Hit the note in the middle" Justin is a Libra and it's all about balance. I can't explain it, but I TRY to sing (iffy results ok at times) and yes you have to be well centered and really hit the tones in the middle. Sorry I can't explain, probably there is a frequency explanation to physical scientists. Center of the sound wave, something like that.

Yea on the trained guitarists.... I wandered into a guitar teacher's studio once, and he actually had the notes on the fret that the student was supposed to learn. That was too much work!!! I think you either want to learn or you don't, no matter what the instrument. I can play piano and guitar, but have no drive.... if I HAD to and if I practiced, I'd be better. It's like dance, you have to practice practice practice and I'm too easily distracted.

After reading Poetics a bit last night, it came back to me, what we learned in Drama class. Art is an imitation of life. It's not the REAL life. Good art reflects reality accurately, or gives you a view of Reality you hadn't considered yet. Justin isn't feeling whatever he was feeling when he lost that girlfriend and he wrote the poem. When he sings it, it's an "imitation" tho he does say he tries to recapture that moment when he sings with feeling. But that moment is gone forever. So, emotions become the art, the poem. Make sense?

Yea I see what you were saying. You only notice bad actors or bad directors when it's a bad movie. (Like Wrinkle in Time.... great actors, but PEE you the director stunk, lousy pacing!) but the pacing to Jurassic Park for example, was really really good. But you don't notice often. I do watch Depp (as an old actor myself), and he does wonderful non-verbals, he's a marvelous actor. A good actor can go through their entire script without speaking a word, yet get the idea across to you, in fact it's an acting exercise often done in development of a show.

I think Depp allows the line between reality and fantasy to blur for himself too much. It's an occupational hazard for many stage performers. A lot of actors hide from Reality, because they are very good at it. Depp is out touring with Alice Cooper in a band called Hollywood Vampires right now.

As a reporter of contentious things, please take care of yourself. The nuts target schools, newspapers, the IRS and anyone they are too immature to deal with rationally. I've told my son to take secret doors out of the IRS building where he works. Same to you, keep a low profile coming out of meetings and let others go first. If anyone threatens you REPORT IT. I know it's not Christian (you try to turn the other cheek) but just stay safe.

June 29, 2018
1:10 pm
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leslee
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lunazure said
Editing for ebb and flow of your words, not to mention conventions, is just good writing skills. Poof! Cool

I only proofread after I hit the send button. It is part of my psychosis.

lunazure said
Even in the desert, there is biodiversity. believe me. Most of the action happens at night.

I love the geology of the desert with the sunset hues and all; but looking at the sunlight on trees of different textures and shades of green really does something for me; especially if I'm in a subtropical zone. I've never been anywhere tropical.

lunazure said
"Hit the note in the middle" Justin is a Libra and it's all about balance. I can't explain it, but I TRY to sing (iffy results ok at times) and yes you have to be well centered and really hit the tones in the middle. Sorry I can't explain, probably there is a frequency explanation to physical scientists. Center of the sound wave, something like that.

Um.

lunazure said
Yea on the trained guitarists.... I wandered into a guitar teacher's studio once, and he actually had the notes on the fret that the student was supposed to learn. That was too much work!!! I think you either want to learn or you don't, no matter what the instrument. I can play piano and guitar, but have no drive.... if I HAD to and if I practiced, I'd be better. It's like dance, you have to practice practice practice and I'm too easily distracted.

I'm not much of a guitar player, though I've owned three guitars. It's funny how guitars have stories, isn't it? Anyway, it was difficult to play because I have such enormous hip bones. I could probably get away with an Ovation or settle for playing the lute. Anyway, I did some recording stuff, and because I'm not a guitarist, I put colored Avery dots on the fretboard as guides. I am definitely unacquainted with that part of the brain Justin uses to play music without scores, but I'd sure love somebody to make the introduction. That said, life for me is work, work, work, and waste time on social media.

lunazure said
After reading Poetics a bit last night, it came b
ack to me, what we learned in Drama class. Art is an imitation of life. It's not the REAL life. Good art reflects reality accurately, or gives you a view of Reality you hadn't considered yet. Justin isn't feeling whatever he was feeling when he lost that girlfriend and he wrote the poem. When he sings it, it's an "imitation" tho he does say he tries to recapture that moment when he sings with feeling. But that moment is gone forever. So, emotions become the art, the poem. Make sense?

No. Art is real as far as I'm concerned. Shall we describe reality as something made out of or moving basic matter, as in electrons and protons? A painting is definitely made out of matter and you can hang it on a wall to hind a messy stain or something, so it is material. A song is made of percussion that vibrates the eardrum. It sets matter in motion, so it is real. Novels may be held in the hand because they are made of matter.

If we go a little deeper, we can discuss the functionality of what is represented in the arts. (I'm not privy to the reason for capitalizing art, so I'll keep to my known conventions lest I signal something I ought not.) Trying to swim in a painting of a seashore would not be the same as being on the seashore. Hearing somebody sing about a love affair isn't the same as sharing household chores and whatever else the real world would bring. A novel can take me on a brave adventure to save a city, but by only reading it, the city is lost or saved without me.

Then, we get to the emotion, which to me, metaphysically speaking, is more real than anything else. The leaves of the seasons, like friends, come and go; but the emotion is always there. Songs, like scribbled notes on chits of paper falling out of a book, trigger long-forgotten memories. Justin's music, provides me with supreme emotion. I first heard it on the PA system in the college cafeteria. It was too quiet to hear the lyrics, but every time it came on, I got "that feeling." Sometimes, I wonder what security thinks if they see me walking down an aisle of a store and a Justin song comes on over the Muzak. It's like a bolt of lightning, commanding me to attention. It's autonomic, but I'll continue shopping until the song's over, too.

As an added bonus, the lyrics take my mind places I've been, physically or in dream. With exceptions of about four songs, the lyrics are soothing, about love and kindness. And so.

lunazure said
Yea I see what you were saying. You only notice bad actors or bad directors when it's a bad movie. (Like Wrinkle in Time.... great actors, but PEE you the director stunk, lousy pacing!) but the pacing to Jurassic Park for example, was really really good. But you don't notice often. I do watch Depp (as an old actor myself), and he does wonderful non-verbals, he's a marvelous actor. A good actor can go through their entire script without speaking a word, yet get the idea across to you, in fact it's an acting exercise often done in development of a show.

I think Depp allows the line between reality and fantasy to blur for himself too much. It's an occupational hazard for many stage performers. A lot of actors hide from Reality, because they are very good at it. Depp is out touring with Alice Cooper in a band called Hollywood Vampires right now.

I was thinking before of writing that Depp is good at getting into his characters. (I use his last name because I don't know if it's Johnny or Johnnie, and I don't want to look it up lest this computer be smitten by ads selling whatever searching for him would dial up for my profile.) I'm not qualified to know if he's lost control. I think I would give him the benefit of a doubt, just because he's a genius at playing parts. I'll pass on the HV's.

lunazure said
As a reporter of contentious things, please take care of yourself. The nuts target schools, newspapers, the IRS and anyone they are too immature to deal with rationally. I've told my son to take secret doors out of the IRS building where he works. Same to you, keep a low profile coming out of meetings and let others go first. If anyone threatens you REPORT IT. I know it's not Christian (you try to turn the other cheek) but just stay safe.

I've been doing this for 20 years. I try to defuse hype with fact, maintaining life, in reality, is mostly boring. I try to respect everybody about whom I write, considering how I would feel should somebody say what I write about me, and I pray but not as much as I ought. That said, I don't know anybody that reads anything I write. I'm a live-free-or-die person. I'm too scatter-brained to add cowering to my to-do list.

June 30, 2018
11:49 pm
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leslee
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Methinks I'll tackle Aristotle tomorrow; I had deadlines to hit. The first glance at Aristotle made me think this could be a book to read a couple pages at a time. One of the reasons I'm such a poor reader is I either can't get into a book or I get into it so much I want to dissect it.

That last Q&A by Justin was very Art-istic.

As for that "take care of yourself" bit above, I got two compliments on my contentious article prepress from high-rankers. I can't help feel slimy, like I've played into their hands. As long as people are excluding me and calling me stupid and crazy, I don't feel like a useful idiot.

July 1, 2018
5:15 am
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lunazure
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People get angry when you give them facts, especially when it destroys a treasured delusion, or worse yet, when they are too stupid and too stubborn to understand. Like I say be careful.

What is truth and what is illusion? We decide....

As Joni Mitchell put it about the performing arts "Play a Starry Night again man!!!" "You know he painted it once, he's not going to paint it again, you hang it on the wall" .... I much prefer Joni Mitchell's take on things to Aristotle's... and besides I got sick of hearing my drama professors spout that stuff when I was sitting in acting lab, slightly hung over. Ah, college.

When history becomes myth, print the myth.... we were sorta kicking it around on another reading group tonight... which is better, the book or the movie they make of it? Outlander, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Starship Troopers.... all of them have well done movies, but they depart in important ways from the books. And fans of the original books get miffed. "Art is imitation" it becomes something different, the rhythm, flow, art changes when the book becomes a movie. Outlander movies are imitations of imitations of real life.

July 1, 2018
9:37 pm
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leslee
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I'm on page 15 and calling "Uncle!"

First of all, I'm heartsick because I offended a very good friend today. It put me in a reflective mood, seeing how schleppy everything about me is. It's really hard to get into imitation in the chorus with iambic when I'm consumed with thoughts of, "What have I done?" I'm in the wrong, so I don't want any consolation about how there are two sides to things.

Back to Aristotle, I'm wondering if "imitation" is translated correctly. It does not make sense. I'm disagreeing with so much, but then I may be reading a bad translation. How does he know the art proceeded gradually rather than cataclysmically? Are humans more imitative than mockingbirds? Is all music imitation? What is the wind blowing past a hollow reed in the woods imitating? The reed is an instrument.

Speaking of unintentional music, I was playing an electric organ/piano that had extraneous sounds. Some keys had some kind of distortion I didn't assess, but the device has this slow-wave thing going on. It starts at a low frequency and then goes higher than I can hear. A couple times, it hit the turnaround point and it sounded like the "Whee!" sounds in clown routines, but subtly. It was music, and it wasn't imitating anything intentionally.

One strategy I've used when reading books with which I disagree is to assume key words mean something similar, as anything invisible and intangible is hard to explain. I choose words that turn the treatise into an amazing corroboration of my schema, and then I find them inspiring. I don't feel like doing this, so I'll pick Aristotle up again next Sunday "-unless!." (I hope Justin's "-unlesses!." are minor, after mentioning disasters to be sorted and the indestructibility of youth.)

July 2, 2018
10:52 am
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lunazure
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"Unless" possibly alluding to a romantic interlude!!! I certainly hope so anyway....

You didn't offend ME... so I assume you are alluding to another person. We must all find our own way socially. I woke up thinking of a bad mistake I made in 1981 and got fired for. Shrug, you gotta let some stuff go. Best wishes there.

"Imitation" I think is in a context we don't understand. Maybe a better translation would be "reflection" as in "all art reflects life"......... No, Poetics is not advice from on high nor particularly "right"......... it is simply what survived of Greek classical writing. The rest was burned or lost over the centuries. Most Greek philosophy has been translated to Latin, then to Arabic, and eventually to English. Yes a lot got lost in translation, for all of them (Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, etc etc.. even the Bible, parts of it) Hehe you should read a play called The Frogs.... I love that one. Or Clymenestra LaughLaugh

I'm really surprised it seems to be the source of so many drama lectures I had to endure. Gotta finish it... went to bed late last night.

July 2, 2018
11:07 am
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leslee
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I took a course in Greek mythology in high school. I remember the names of authors and characters and the general plots, but far be it for me put more than a few together correctly. I'm pretty sure we read "Clytemnestra," and much was said of "Frogs." It used to intrigue me - until I started looking it academically.

Back to Aristotle and my rampant toxicity, I am thus given to believe my lust drives me to attend Justin concerts, where his cadence in iambic meters relieves me of pity and fear. Man! I don't go to enough concerts.

July 3, 2018
3:26 pm
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lunazure
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I've forgotten the play where the women go on strike until the war stops. Might be another name.... it's very funny. OK...

Still picking through Poetics. I'm fascinated, it seems to be a "how to write for stage" manual from the very early days... probably the first to be put down in writing. (People have stolen from Aristotle for 2000 years, so it's pretty familiar to me, and a bit boring.) Alas the problem has been over the ages, is the classical Greek writing is put on a pedastal, considered perfection. NO it's not, a lot of analysis of dramatic writing has been done in the nonce.

It occurs to me that Justin maybe wants to write that stageplay about the Moodies. What a good idea! But going to Poetics for the mechanics???? Shudder.... I've found that when writing, you should just TAKE OFF and WRITE. Then, go back and fix typos and awkward parts. It will fall into place... but the first thing is to WRITE.

There is so many "formulas" one can use for writing. The most elegant I've seen so far, was just in the "extras" of the Magical Mystery Tour DVD.... Paul drew a circle, divided it into sections, put different scenes in there.... many long novels, books and movies are made up of small bits, or "short stories" Steinbeck was a master at this. Outlander is written like this.

My favorite system for writing is simple: you have a build up, a climax and a "fall" or ending resolution section. Movies like Star Wars, which is a modern myth or legend, uses Joseph Campbell's system for the "Hero's Journey" (so does Harry Potter) When we teach writing in schools, we stick to "who what where when why how" that is, Character, what is going on, where does it happen, what time period (and use a timeline) what are the motivations for various characters, and how does it happen?

Shakespeare did five acts, most modern stage plays use three acts. Musicals (which is more like what the Greeks did) have a chorus and main characters (classical Greek drama has only three characters, with occasional lines spoken by the leader of the Chorus) The chorus sings and dances of course. We think Greek choral "dancing" may have been more like Tai Chi, rather than the energetic dance of today.

I stickied this last night because I usually forget it, one of my acting coaches loved it. Tragedy was felt to be (by the classical Greeks) to be something that will evoke pity and fear, thus bringing about a catharsis of emotions... ie something that makes you weep. It DOES work, I remember distinctly seeing David Ogden Stiers do King Lear on stage, and he had me in tears at the end. Shakespeare knew how to write tragedy and Stiers is a master Shakespearian. This is the reason that the best preserved drama center of Greece is right in the same complex with their best hospital. Seeing the plays was supposed to purge the emotions, and thus the body would heal quicker. (Early psychodrama)

Also it would send a thought through you "Geeze I thought *I* had it bad"..... Oedipus and HIS dysfunctional family would make the Borgias look like angels.

July 3, 2018
6:51 pm
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leslee
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I thought Justin was making fun of the question, but I was projecting. I still can't wrap my mind around the question, and the answer doesn't appear to be a direct response. What do I know?

I only read 16 or 17 pages. It might get better, but first I've got tons of briefs to write and edit before Friday. Then, I have my regular weekly stuff, so it will have to wait. The dog's been sick since 6:30 this morning, so that hasn't helped, either.

Anyway, what wee portion I read sounded like what, in analogy to music, would be a recipe for a hit. You can look at sales, pupil dilation, survey answers and collect a bunch of cliche motifs, group them together, and get a lot of money. Aristotle impresses me as the dread A&R guy, the body-snatcher who takes over groups like Heart and turns them into hit machines. Aristotle can make you a group like the Stone Temple Pilots, master musicians who create music that ain't got no soul. I prefer the image of a dude sitting under a tree driven by emotion to create something that will resonate almost universally - not to exercise a scientifically-proven method, but to say something on his heart.

Then again, Aristotle may get better, and maybe I should substitute some words when I return to it.

July 5, 2018
12:04 am
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leslee
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I wonder what/how Justin's doing.

#JHQA: And how are you today?

July 5, 2018
12:05 am
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leslee
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#JHQA: Huh?

July 5, 2018
1:53 pm
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lunazure
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LOL Is that really up at his Twitter???

Yeah I agree with your assessment of Aristotle. He was full of bleep and making his dosh by sounding like an expert. His "wisdom" has echoed down through the ages, he was so successful. I CAN see him as a producer, putting his formulas into simple stories and making these grandiose shows out of them. With his formulas for writing. hehehe

I'm sorry about the dog, but they do barf fairly regular. Sophie gifted me with a pile of cat barf about a week ago.... thankfully easy clean up, I keep rubber gloves handy. See if she wants some buttermilk, that often helps. For the other end, we used to feed them rice boiled in chicken broth. Or, to the vet and put it on the bosses tab.

Speaking of which I need to clean the litter box, but it has been a good day, the sun is shining again, I measured some places in the yard that are going to get a remodel, dropped off the more or less finished costumes for the kiddy play. My grandson made a great chicken yesterday. I'll head back over at 1ish and clean up the carnage... he managed to split out his drawers yesterday. I double stitched them last night, hopefully will hold up to an active child.

Oh yea I gotta put a spark plug in the riding mower too. Just call me Superwoman!!! Dah TAH!!

Later... (had to drop everything to talk to IRS) hope your 4th was fun.... I love fireworks, and we had so many here last night, I took a walk and they were blooming all over the Sound... I have a great view. My neighbors did their pyro party thing and the cats ran and hid. Washington is a free and open state as far as fireworks are concerned.... lots of drunks firing stuff off last night.

July 5, 2018
6:32 pm
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leslee
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The ship has hit the sand as deadlines approach here. I only cropped up here for a little oxygen. I'm going back under.

Love, y'all.

July 6, 2018
3:32 pm
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leslee
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Why does my day feel a little lighter every time there's a Justin tweet, even if it is only something I've read before and posted by a social media management employee?

July 6, 2018
6:34 pm
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lunazure
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Lysistrata.

That's it, the wives all go on strike until the war ends. Here here! Laugh

It's a bad example of classical "Poetics" or Greek drama because it's a comedy.... the chorus was iffy in the comedies. Oedipus (and the sequels) would have a formal chorus. They were very stuff about the "forms" of theatre, mostly due to Aristotle probably. Kiss

July 6, 2018
10:29 pm
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leslee
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I'm hobbling along with a slow computer. Last week, simple standard alphanumeric characters in Microsoft wer too much for it to handle. It didn't have enough memory. I told the boss. I thought maybe one of the neighbors had cracked the WiFi code and was having a torrent, but when I tried to shut the computer down to restart it, I got the message that I couldn't because somebody else was using the computer. The boss thought maybe somebody had hacked the computer to mine bitcoin and didn't think anybody would be using it after 5 on a Friday. Well, it's happening again. I've got to post about 60 events online, and saving takes about 2 minutes and ordering up a new form for the next one takes another minute or two. So, I decided to see if I could post something here as I waited, and I lost.

As for mythology, I liked it from a child's perspective. I wanted to be a beautiful nymph running around in the woods with long, flowing, white robes. Diana was my favorite. That was before I learned about ticks. I mentioned in a former incarnation of this board how I had watched a television series, "Odysseus," with my grandmother. It was filmed in Italy. The special effects were laughable, but the colors were captivating, and the actors and actresses were strangely addictive. I have on occasion listed it as my favorite movie. I didn't like mythology so much when, as an academic pursuit, we started learning of the petty jealousy and drama and all around weirdness of the characters.

July 8, 2018
10:52 am
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lunazure
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Ah.... Luthien Tinuviel.... JRR Tolkien's version.

Yea every fantasy has it's ticks I suspect, to go metaphorical. And yes I can believe Diana goddess of the Moon is your patron Greek spirit. Laugh

I LOVE all "sword and sandal" movies.... if it's the Odysseus movie I'm thinking of Kirk Douglas is very young and very sweaty (handsome bugger with a big beard!) in the role of "clever Odysseus" yes it's a marvelous movie. You'd pass out if you knew the ORIGINAL incarnation/form of the costumes the ladies wore in there.... YIKE, They had to keep it G rated. But yes, like the spaghetti westerns, they used local actors and over dubbed in that one, yes Italian actors. I remember Circe the witch was knock out gorgeous and had one of those long flowing robe chiton things on.

If it's the movie I think it is, they used stop action special effects for the various monsters, and yes gorgeous colors. You could show it in a classroom I know. That person who did the stop action was a legend in Hollywood lore.... he did a lot of weird movies of the time. One I can remember vividly was Flesh Gordon, and you definitely wouldn't want to see that one. It's really funny tho.

Sorry you pressed my sci fi button, I love to babble about old cool movies like that.

I'm sorry about the slow computer. Try hitting control alt delete together, that will give you the option of choosing a "task manager" go into that and start stopping anything toward the bottom of the list that says "exe" on the end. Those are the worms that slow you down. I stop anything that says "java" because that is something that wants animated ads to run on your computer, and they take up a lot of memory. I also stop Norton and any other anti virus. They are more trouble than they are worth.

To stop something, select the item, then in the right lower corner there should be a "delete" or "stop" option box. Don't worry the worst that can happen is it will crash, and you'll have to reboot. Save all work first. Then they all come back, but the offending worms might be stopped for a while anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8hLc_nqx8g

July 8, 2018
11:40 am
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I finally remembered something from Poetics I was going to post about... "plot reversal" usually the main character changes somehow, has a revelation etc.... and things are resolved. Best example I can think of is How the Grinch Stole Christmas (which is sorta a retelling of A Christmas Carol by Dickens) where the Grinch turns into a good guy at the end. Then I was just watching the movie Rio with my grandson.... it's a classically written plot, boy meets girl (forced marriage) they get chained together, they are in a dungeon then escape, one can fly one can't, and the character resolves his innermost issue (can't fly) by the end when a plot reversal hurts someone he loves... but he doesn't realize how much he loves her until that happens. He's a real hero in the end after all. All in an animated movie which is appropriate for kindergarteners. They have some real genius writers working for the Mouse, indeed.

Plot reversal brings on that catharsis aforementioned. I couldn't believe my grandson was crying at the end, he was so happy. Amazing. Sniff. Aristotle was trying to write down the formulas for this very story writing process 2000 years ago.

July 8, 2018
2:22 pm
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leslee
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I think I shall prefer art that comes from that other part of the brain Justin mentioned. It is important to be nice, but where is the spirit in somebody reading a recipe book on how to capture your heart? I get more out of a little kid wanting to give me a sticker than I get out of song produced from market research. I'm so glad Marty Wilde advised Justin to write his own music. Marty's daughter didn't do that but did well in the industry. I like her, and I might keep her songs on the radio, but I wouldn't go out of my way to go to a concert or anything.

I think I shall get back on my "Poetics" later today should the computer stop doing weird things. I may be stuck in this room.

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